Curse

calamitykell · Apr 16, 2006, 04:55 AM // 04:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady Lozza

While the intelligent half of the population

Just wanted to say that the bold+underline assumption is way off

Linkusmax · Apr 16, 2006, 05:58 AM // 05:58

I dunno, IWAY can be fun sometimes and even with a little modding can be made pretty tough to beat.

A bunch of guildies and I decided we wanted a quick HA run today, we didn't feel like organising a proper build like usual so we decided to run IWAY. We had 3 rank 3's and everyone else unranked (although I wouldn't look too deeply into that, most of them were experianced from GvG)

After someone said we will have some fun but never win halls this happened. (Im Krijgslieder One)

You will notice we dropped the matyr trapper for an e/mo and it made this build MUCH better against balanced teams. (Double Meteor Shower was great, and we had matyr + purge + more healing)

The two teams we faced in halls were [HooD] (rank 37) and a team comprising of [WM] [RenO] and [SnE] so I wouldn't call them pushovers.

The build is fun quick and relatively effective. Its not any more powerfull in the hands of skilled players then any other build is in the hands of equally skilled players. Theres no reason to hate on it.

EDIT: I have permission from guildys to post it

yesitsrob · Apr 16, 2006, 09:52 AM // 09:52

I don't really get the martyr trapper thing, a trapper running martyr strikes me as the crappest trapping build ever... trapping with whirling without oath shot... meh.

Wouldn't the martyr be better off on the necro or something else? like that emo build in the above screenshot.

Quote:

BTW, the other day we ran original IWAY with 8 wars, and we gained about 15 fame from the run. So, it isn't really weakened from the original build.

You must have faced some crap teams
_

I still lose to IWAY, not so much with the guild, but with pugs.... this is largely because most rank 6 plus plus plus pugs are terrible, and at least 2 of your players tend to have iway'd all their fame and think that now is the time to try monking... so everyone dies.

In defense of IWAY, it's one of the better fame farming builds there is, because it rolls bad teams. If you think it rolls good teams too, you're wrong, and if it rolls you all the time, it's because you are in fact in a bad team

We've ran a version over the fpe weekend that some guildie got off some friend in another guild consisting of a battle rage sword warrior, 2 axes, and 2 vim monks... and some other thing... and that tended to slaughter other iways... a funny comment we got was "don't you just hate it when people ruin real iway."

I largely dislike it, and HA to an extent now because it consists of a vast number of fame farming builds without anything really new or interesting.

Necro Spike is getting old.... although I really like watching rnub in gvg with it

, and that monk ele spike build is just... ick, though in fairness it's the way to play if you want to hold halls for a long period of time... that's a flaw of HA though, as a result we're seeing some rather lame builds consisting of a good caller and 7 zombies

Poison Ivy · Apr 16, 2006, 09:56 AM // 09:56

Iway doesn't need defence.

They are applying to the "Offence is the Best defence" quote.

Who needs defence when your enemies are already dead?

Kariston The Swift · Apr 16, 2006, 10:14 AM // 10:14

Personally I think the whole idea behind Iway is brilliant. My build known to most as Humpgort or Gortway was completely fueled by that idea and it works amazingly well. Now if all the Iways ran that instead you'd see a very new metagame. Too bad you need TS/Vent to run it or else it might just happen.

The High Lord · Apr 16, 2006, 10:40 AM // 10:40

Personally I think it's sad that people can't run original builds that much anymore because you ALWAYS need to think about IWAY. You need either wards, blind, aegis (double), ... And that just limits builds and it's a shame. On the other hand some people say it's easy fame farming for new players, but those players have been "new" since october and been running IWAY for months now, so no excuse for that.

deathdela · Apr 16, 2006, 12:21 PM // 12:21

The main reason iway is run is because instead of standing round for an hour looking for a team you can get one in like 1 minute. Iwayers can be accused of fame farming but iway is no different then builds like ranger spike and blood spike.

Divinus Stella · Apr 16, 2006, 12:26 PM // 12:26

The reason I don’t like the build is it allows even the most retarded people to compete in an area that should reward intelligence and tact.

Tazzo · Apr 16, 2006, 12:40 PM // 12:40

I agree with the fact Iway was an easy way to get to R3 i loved being the Tainted necro in the build messing with the build for a lil fun.But once R3 wanted to try other builds.I think Iway does let newer PvPers get a taste of the ocasional victory but after time finding yes we are losing why?.And then moving to try other builds.Instead of discouraging then by losing thinking pvp isnt for me. And if you lose to Iway maybe that build really wasnt what you should have came down with try again.

Thats my 2 cents anyway

zakaria · Apr 16, 2006, 12:53 PM // 12:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divinus Stella

The reason I don’t like the build is it allows even the most retarded people to compete in an area that should reward intelligence and tact.

IWAYers were always the guardians of HoH

you can't win and hold HoH if you can't beat them, IWAY always exclude bad builds from tournament

awesome sauce · Apr 16, 2006, 04:58 PM // 16:58

Quote:

Honestly how so? That people found it easier to win with this build because it is pug friendly? Even when IWAY was at the top of the game organised teams (often guild/friend teams) beat it EASILY.
The popularity of IWAY had a lot to do with the fact that you could pug it and get results. Running balanced takes time to practise and tweak.

The point is that there was a time when new players could and would get into diverse groups that actually required some amount of skill to play. iway is now almost the only thing that lower level players use, and all it teaches them is how to attack. Therefore we have large amounts of people with high ranks and no skill. Also, Because iWAY introduced fame farming, it is to blame for the rank seperation that we have today and the fact that almost any good group other than iWAY is in internation districts and requires r6+.

Quote:

I'll agree that there are many demands for IWAY in HA. However what about ToPK, and SF. There is also a demand there for a very specifi
c team build.

Look at TA and see the plentiful diverse types of builds that newer players are allowed to join, wouldn't you like to see HA like that? Also, you don't actually have to face the teams in topk and sf like you do in HA where fighting the same build every time is boring and repetitive.

Quote:

Are you saying that America can't gain favour because they can't manage to defeat IWAY? I would say that is a problem with American teams - not with IWAY.
Or are you saying that America can't get favour because all they want to run is IWAY? I would stil say that is a problem with American teams - not with IWAY.

Changing iWAY is alot easier than changing the mindset of American teams.

Quote:

I actually wonder if it had more to do with the general attitude of NA HA players rather than IWAY, but of course I don't think that we will ever really know the true reasons they chose to do this.

Probably both, but youre right, no way of telling.

Quote:

Then I suggest that America needs to change its attitude. You can't just blame a build, and inanimate, non-thinking entity for all the woes the American server is experiencing. Wipe IWAY and another FoTM build will take its place to dominate on the server because the attitude of the general population is that they need to run the FoTM to win. While the intelligent half of the population knows that isn't the case you don't just take away one thing and expect them to get over it - you have to educate them to adopt different methods or one FoTM will always be followed by another.

The problem isn't that iway is a fotm build, it's that it's the flavor of 8 friggin months of nothing but iway build. Yes, another fotm build will arise when iway is nerfed, but at least then there will be something new in HA. And I can't imagine any new fotm build requiring as little skill or being as widely used as iway. I never heard as many complaints about air spike when it was the fotm.

Sagius Truthbarron · Apr 16, 2006, 05:31 PM // 17:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juicey Shake

I agree that it sort of filters out worse teams, but there are a few points I have to disagree with.

IWAY, as it stands, is usually 4 warriors, 2 rangers, 2 necros, right? What if you change it? Drop the useless traps of one ranger, drop one pet, sub in another necro.. is it still a nub, no skill build?

Wards... hexes, blinds.. all can be exploited by a 4 warrior offense easily. Interrupt, shock, or have a necro gale the wards and hexes. Have coordinated attack formations.. martyr for the nasty conditions.

Modding it even slightly increases it's power tremendously, my friends and I have flawlessed top 20 guild teams with it [in the past week, yes!] We've taken halls with it, and held a few times, too... does that mean all other teams we rolled are unworthy to enter? Even if we had run the stock build, the result would probably be the same..

Or, is it possible that with party members who listen and a designated leader of some tactical ingenuity, even a 'n00b cookie cutter, no skill' build can be successful, no matter how crapy it looked on paper?

He never said he thought that IWAY was any of those things. He was doing sort of a first person quotation when he said:

Quote:

The IWAY build catches a lot of flak in HA. It's a n00b build, there's no skill, it's just cookie cutter builds swinging merrily away with axes periodically shouting about how they'll avenge their pets.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSN Encarta - Dictionary

Flak

2. criticism: strong adverse criticism ( informal )

akatsuki-san · Apr 16, 2006, 05:40 PM // 17:40

if iway is such a noobish as many people say, why do they win then? and i think it's more noobish to sit here complaining about other builds all the time! iway build is a nice build for those who are not so experienced in pvp/gvg and instead of waiting forever to get all the skills for other builds they can try iway at the beginning......you should really just stop the whining about iway........

dbgtboy · Apr 16, 2006, 06:14 PM // 18:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theus

You're defending a build that:

A)Made rank that anyone actually got through legitimate builds utterly useless.

legitimate builds? you mean spirit spam, air spike, euro fotm, blood spike, r spike, and all those other builds that just pack a shitload of defense and stall the game for a couple of minutes? there is NOBODY that is rank 9 right now that has never played a fotm, ha was made for builds like iway and blood spike.

MrBiggums · Apr 16, 2006, 07:22 PM // 19:22

its funny how all the defense for iway is coming from people that play iway in iway guilds

most people dont like iway because the iway players are terrible in other builds and thats why they play iway.

the problem with iway is not that its overpowered because it isnt. just like bloodspike and ranger spike it makes tombs boring. at least bloodspike and ranger spike have chances of winning vs good teams more than 1/10 times. go in tombs and 75% of your matches are against iway ,blood spike, and ranger spike. it just gets repetitive and boring when you know what you're facing before the match starts. balanced players have to gimp their builds just to account for some defense for iway teams which is rediculous

awesome sauce · Apr 16, 2006, 08:28 PM // 20:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by dbgtboy

legitimate builds? you mean spirit spam, air spike, euro fotm, blood spike, r spike, and all those other builds that just pack a shitload of defense and stall the game for a couple of minutes? there is NOBODY that is rank 9 right now that has never played a fotm, ha was made for builds like iway and blood spike.

Those builds still require alot more skill than iWAY, and notice that most were fotm around the same time. That was a time when there was a lot of diversity, originality, and options in tombs.

Linkusmax · Apr 17, 2006, 02:41 AM // 02:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrBiggums

its funny how all the defense for iway is coming from people that play iway in iway guilds

most people dont like iway because the iway players are terrible in other builds and thats why they play iway.

the problem with iway is not that its overpowered because it isnt. just like bloodspike and ranger spike it makes tombs boring. at least bloodspike and ranger spike have chances of winning vs good teams more than 1/10 times. go in tombs and 75% of your matches are against iway ,blood spike, and ranger spike. it just gets repetitive and boring when you know what you're facing before the match starts. balanced players have to gimp their builds just to account for some defense for iway teams which is rediculous

Yes, because we played IWAY once or tice were an IWAY guild, what a croc.

Although I can agree that many IWAY players are terrible in other builds. Their often terrible in the IWAY build its just a bit more forgiving. Maybe if you actually took a bit of time to talk to people you play with before inviting them like I do you could avoid this.

I don't gimp my balanced builds to deal with IWAY, I juist take things which are usefull anyway. The warrior hate I take in a balanced build would probably be taken anyway iway didn't exist.

Farin · Apr 17, 2006, 04:58 AM // 04:58

I wouldn't hate IWAY if their wolves werent so .. loud..

.

IWAY doesn't really bother me, when I do play tombs I get one or two IWAY teams, I guess I'm lucky.

JiggyFly · Apr 17, 2006, 07:05 AM // 07:05

It's not IWAY that's great, Don't get me wrong Pets, Traps,Tainted, spirits, and Orders add to the confusion as well as provide som extra damage.

But the reason IWAY is so dominant is because Axe Warriors in general are very dominant, any build will fall quite easily with a bunch of Axearriors raging all over the place. Warriors have a very high dps and add that in with pets, conditions, and all the rest and if the initial damage from the warriors doesn't kill you, the dps will.

IWAY isn't a noob build, it's a very good build that noobs can play. In my opinion the fact that 8 unranked players running IWAY are quite capable doing very will in Heros Ascent is the reason it takes so much heat. Because people just can't stand the fact that the build is so simple to make and yet so easy to lose too.

IWAY is by no means an auto-trip to the HoH but there have been times where I've sat around in a custom or guild group getting organized for 30+ minutes, only to be swept by a random IWAY PUG in the first round, which is why I believe so many people hate it.

Vaga · Apr 17, 2006, 08:37 AM // 08:37

The problem is with HA's lame maps not Iway and the other FOTM's.